Fordham MSQF Fordham MSQF Admission Discussion

[hoganchao]

i, i am admitted to the relatively new program and probably going for it because of its well rounded curriculum. i wonder if there is anyone admitted too and interested in it. i went to the school a few days ago and find that it is not located in the original fordham lincoln centre campus but on a whole floor right next to columbus circle. basically, the business school rented the whole 13th floor for this program, there is a classroom newly deco with 25 computer protocols. in contrast to last year's low enrollment of which only 8 people in, this year it is expected to be fully filled. i really like the atmosphere there, around the trading room style classroom are all professor offices which means you can communicate with them just next door. and i also talked to some student there, he thinks the program structure itself is great regardless of the internship scene due to the market recession. and the reason why they don't teach c++ or a bunch of programming skills is that they consider their program different from those in like baruch, cmu or ucb as a comprehensive finance program combined with baskets of quantitative analytical skills and tools. as the professor says, there is no-guarantee that you will be a professional quant after any single one-year program, the most crucial part is to be trained during work. so it is the program's goal to teach you as many as possible, then you go yourself. any comments are welcomed=D>

 

[bigbadwolf]

... and the reason why they don't teach c++ or a bunch of programming skills is that they consider their program different from those in like baruch, cmu or ucb as a comprehensive finance program combined with baskets of quantitative analytical skills and tools.

The reason Baruch, CMU, and UCB emphasise programming is because this is what sells, this is what employers want. A quant without experience in scientific computing and numerical analysis is no quant at all.

as the professor says, there is no-guarantee that you will be a professional quant after any single one-year program, the most crucial part is to be trained during work. so it is the program's goal to teach you as many as possible, then you go yourself. any comments are welcomed

American (and British) employers want to train as little as possible. They're happiest if you hit the ground running. If they were willing to train, they would hire math grads straight from college and put them through a comprehensive training program. They prefer people who are at least partly trained (thus saving them the cost and hassle of doing the training). While it's true no MFE program can guarantee a quant job in today's market, some MFEs are more sought after than others. Those will be the ones that focus mroe on programming, and which mesh programming skills more smoothly with quantitative finance.

 

[alain]

There is a thread in this forum with not too kind words about the Fordham program. Also, Dominic doesn't seem too high on this program. He has some good reasons that he has put forward on this forum and on his blog at Wilmott. I tend to trust his opinion since he has been longer in this business than me.

Good Luck anyway and get back to us with your experiences while you are there.

 

[Bridgett]

I'm also curious to see how it goes. After briefly reading information about the Fordham program, I don't feel that it's rigorous enough; instead, it seems to concentrate on the newest techniques being applied on Wall Street, which can change quickly as we speak. Like what our professor, Sylvan Raynes once said, we should mostly focus on learning things that don't change over time -- the fundamental building blocks.

Good luck there though, and please do let us know how you like it.

 

[hoganchao]

The reason Baruch, CMU, and UCB emphasise programming is because this is what sells, this is what employers want. A quant without experience in scientific computing and numerical analysis is no quant at all.

i think the program is not focused on being a quant one but rather a specific finance program requiring more quantitative than normal ones. remember the program is called quantitative finance instead of financial engineering which mainly based on programming. anyway, i have no finance background before and neither do i want to be a quant which i think will narrow down my career chase. i choose the program because of its well round structure. i need to learn as much as possible before i decide to go which way. so basically, i choose the program as an transition as i decide to quit my architecture career. there are many programs available, we can not simply say which one is best, but which one is the best for you. if you determined to be a quant and have strong background in computer or math or at least you are eager to learn than go for baruch, ucb etc. for me, i think fordham is a great one.

 

[hoganchao]

again, nobody admitted this year?:smt024

 

[alain]

... for me, i think fordham is a great one.

Again, good luck !!! Time will tell if you made the right decision or not. Hopefully, you will get back to us and make a strong case for the Fordham program.

BTW, from your posts, it seems that you are trying to justify your own decision. That doesn't seem really objective since you are basing your reasoning on subjective things... but, that's just my opinion and, I might be mistaken.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

there are many programs available, we can not simply say which one is best, but which one is the best for you. if you determined to be a quant and have strong background in computer or math or at least you are eager to learn than go for baruch, ucb etc. for me, i think fordham is a great one.

Well said. We sure wish you the best of luck and hope everything works out the way you plan.

I'm sure you learn a lot about Fordham program in the other thread. If you are convinced it's the best program for you, i'd say go for it and never look back. It's you who makes the most out of a program.

If all the knocking around here makes Fordham a better program, improves their internship and job prospects, I think our efforts and criticism are worth it.

Just make sure you keep our Quantnet members updated on what's going on there. More inside info would only help prospective students to make informed decisions.

I read on your other post that Fordham has more than 100 applicants this year and expect to fill all of their 25 seats. Did you apply and get admitted to other programs before deciding on Fordham? If you and others have more than one admit, it would be interesting to see how many would choose Fordham over others.

By the way, are you serious about Fordham renting the whole 13th floor on that building?

 

[hoganchao]

By the way, are you serious about Fordham renting the whole 13th floor on that building?

yes, the building is 1790 broadway which is previously occupied by hearst corporation. but now they move to the new fancy triangle building by norman foster. the director also told me that the 11th floor the school rent is being decorated and they gonna rent the 12th floor too later. the former building in lincoln campus are not sufficient enough to accommodate the expanding plan. you can read the report about it here:
GBA Adds Office Space in Midtown Manhattan, Creates Trading Floor

 

[hoganchao]

by the way, they recruit a professor this year who has been working in morgan stanley for over 10 years and is expected to have a close contact with industry and hopefully improve the career services scene.

 

[John]

yes, the building is 1790 broadway which is previously occupied by hearst corporation. but now they move to the new fancy triangle building by norman foster. the director also told me that the 11th floor the school rent is being decorated and they gonna rent the 12th floor too later. the former building in lincoln campus are not sufficient enough to accommodate the expanding plan. you can read the report about it here:
GBA Adds Office Space in Midtown Manhattan, Creates Trading Floor

this is a great addition to the Fordham program.

 

[DominiConnor]

I'm sorry but a course that has "quant" in it's name is not being honest with you if it does not do C++, but does accountancy instead.
I see no numerical methods, which will hurt you.
Yes, you can be a quant who just uses VBA, and I have no issue with its use in teaching, indeed I think that pushing C++, maths and finance in one lecture can overload students.

I give it 50/50 that the 2009 market will be the toughest for entry level people like you. Any weakness will go badly when you are competing for jobs.
That's not just the change in employment patters, but also the supply of MFEs. Fordham is tripling the number of students, and although very few places are growing that fast, but most are drifting up, and yet more programs are starting.

 

[alain]

Dominic, I totally agree with you. IMO, it seems that the original poster is better off trying to get an MBA in Finance from a quantitative oriented school (like UChicago) than a half baked Quant Degree... but maybe I'm wrong and the Fordham program happens to be the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[albertmath]

FORDHAM AGAIN changed the course in the program. I am a student admitted to fordham and I dont understand them.

They have changed the course requirements to internship again from the summer projects. but actually what we have heard from the students in the many of them are doing projects in school and dont have like internships at firms and they are unpaid.

Imagine if the same thing happens to me. I get admitted and later on like the first year students dont get internships as promised.

I mean is the internship guaranteed ? What about full time placement also . We have heard nothing about that.

Hoganchao what did the student you spoke to say about the internship.
What are the students doing.
on willmott there are good things said about the curriculum though no c++.

I am now confused whether to go the program I mean if the faculty could not deliver in the first year ...then they changed the program to projects now they are changing back to internships but none of the students seem to have them and most are doing projects from what we heard .........

I just cant trust the program completely ......hoganchao you spoke to a student in school about the internships so what was said and what about full time they should have received some offers by now... Out of 8 students you should expect the faculty to place 8 students no matter what the conditions....
!! I need some replies quickly and some help...........!!!

 

[alain]

I mean is the internship guaranteed ? What about full time placement also . We have heard nothing about that.

No program will ever guarantee internship or job placement. If any program does they are probably lying. Some programs will have a great record of placement but that doesn't mean it is guaranteed.

 

[albertmath]

Hey hoganchao which professor told you this ..


""""
there is no-guarantee that you will be a professional quant after any single one-year program, the most crucial part is to be trained during work. so it is the program's goal to teach you as many as possible, then you go yourself. any comments are welcomed=D>"""

Doesnt the professor sound confused himself where to place his students. Everyone gets trained in work nothing new. he himself says no guarantee you would be a quant after this program.

i remember the student at willmott praised the curriculum a lot also. ok no c++ so many quant jobs go away but thats not the goal of the program to make you quant it seems...lol

​

Financial analyst, trading research assistant, securities modeler
• Derivatives analyst, derivatives pricing specialist
• Portfolio analyst, portfolio modeler
• Risk analyst, risk modeler• Fixed income analyst

I got this off their website on the information session powerpoint. They gloat up things like crazy. JP morgan goldman, lehman how many students actually got internships there. The best thing of all is that the heading is ""selected sponsor of internships""" and then they name these firms but how many students actually got into any of these firms. I mean internships not projects.


Also how many students actually got jobs in any in of these fields, in three cases the say you can be a modeler but most modeling happens in c++ and there is no c++.

They sound really confused as to where they want their students to go. the curriculum seems good and that student also praised the finance side . Most schools have good curriculums personally.its these things like placement internships , quality of professors, that distinguish programs.

I have problems with this First the internships thing..... then full time ......... hoganchao you want to do economic policy after the program it seems and are not bothered about internships or full time. Any comments or news from others and at the forum and any current student would like to say something please do.

 

[albertmath]

No program will ever guarantee internship or job placement. If any program does they are probably lying. Some programs will have a great record of placement but that doesn't mean it is guaranteed.

See forget full time placement.I am just want to see how many students got placed. I know no program guarantee's a full time job.

Over here though If the internship is not guaranteed then why make it a requirement and say we get interships for students , students take part in an intensive internship program at major banks and get students in the program by giving them such details. thats what i have been told plus if the current students only did not get internships not sure though, last what we heard they were doing projects.. plus they list like i pointed selected sponsors for internships and list all the big banks.

this is crazy they will do anything to get students in their program. even provide false information.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

On April 14th, Tigga pointed out that they changed their paragraph about the internship part to project

Required Summer Project
All students participate in a project at a major financial institution during the summer term. The project serves as the capstone of the MSQF Program. It gives students the opportunity to apply the financial theory and quantitative skills they have learned in the classroom and to get hands-on experience solving real-world financial problems in a business setting. Students will also take an oral and written communications course during the last term to develop the communications skills they need to function in business. The summer project will provide opportunities to apply those communication skills.
The summer project requirement can be paid or unpaid from a financial firm either arranged by us or by the student him/herself. In the unlikely event that a student is not able to obtain a project from any financial firm, a suitable project will be designed for the student by the MSQF faculty.

I can confirm that the website now reverts back to the original line

Required Internship
All students participate in an intensive internship program at a major financial institution during the last term. The internship services as the capstone of the MSQF Program. It gives students the opportunity to apply the financial theory and quantitative skills they have learned in the classroom and to get hands-on experience solving real-world financial problems in a business setting. Students will also take an oral and written communications course during the last term to develop the communications skills they need to function in business. The internship will provide opportunities to apply those communication skills.

I don't know the reason behind this. There are at least two current Fordham students who replied in this thread (post #48 and #53) so you can contact them directly.
You can also email the director(s) to inquire directly. They have the email addresses on the website.

The student who posted on Wilmott deleted all of his postings there (his handle is dmk345). Dominic did raise a question whether the student got talked to by the faculty. There is no response from him so nobody knows why he removed his posts or what is going on there.

We provide our members all the info and the final analysis is theirs to make of which program to join.
It appears you are upset and confused. I would suggest that you email/call the directors and let us know what response they have for your inquires.

 

[albertmath]

I am not upset but confused.

But thanks i will contact them and faculty but cant trust the faculty for giving me correct information.
Therefore if hoganchao could share some light on the issue it would be great since he met students and spoke to the faculty.

And if current students read this it would be great that you reply.

Anymore comments welcome.

 

[DominiConnor]

One thing that you get from an established program with a good record for the people coming out if it is a better shot at internships. But the Fordham program is not only new but looks as if some academics met in a bar to work out how to grab some of the easy money they see others making.
It's glued together from stuff they had lying around, a bit like the 'A' Team, but not done by an A team.

I'm all for innovation, but this is the opposite. You do not get the next generation of fighter aircraft by using recycled bits of passenger airliners stuck together without even watching movies on air combat, let alone getting experienced engineers in the design team.,


As Andy and others say they still have stuff on their site that would lead you to believe that you are guaranteed an internship.
"All students participate in an intensive internship program at a major financial institution during the last term."
To me that is a simple promise, not an "ambition", or a "goal", but a deliverable you get in return for the large fee they get from you.

I would just like to clarify that no-one from Fordham staff has chosen to speak to me in any way.

That's one of the many ironies in this case, especially from a business school. In my business education I covered the Perrier screwup. Perrrier held a huge % of the US bottled water market. They lost big money and market share by inept handling of quality control issues.

Brand Failures - and lessons learned!: Brand PR failures: Perrier’s benzene contamination

Fordham is of course selling a much higher priced product, and making highly unlikely claims is going to hurt their brand big time.
But it's not my job to defend any university, I only care about people in this profession who may find themselves losing a pile of cash and a year of their lives on promises that would be extremely hard for any MFE program to deliver.

I have succeeded in not using the word "fraudulent" here for legal reasons. But I guess by now that Fordham have realised that my lawyers are bigger than their lawyers.