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Job prospects for international students without work-ex

Joined
3/6/11
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Hi all

I have received am admit from Columbia's MSFE program. However, I am in a dilemma whether to accept it or not. The main apprehension being the huge initial investment which I may find difficult to recover.
Could anyone please throw some light on the job prospects for international MSFE students without prior work-ex? Also, how difficult is it to find a H1-B visa sponsorship for such students?

Thanks
 
Could anyone please throw some light on the job prospects for international MSFE students without prior work-ex? Also, how difficult is it to find a H1-B visa sponsorship for such students?

They are bleak in the United States.
 
Hi all

I have received am admit from Columbia's MSFE program. However, I am in a dilemma whether to accept it or not. The main apprehension being the huge initial investment which I may find difficult to recover.
Could anyone please throw some light on the job prospects for international MSFE students without prior work-ex? Also, how difficult is it to find a H1-B visa sponsorship for such students?

Thanks

Students with no prior work experience just some minimal internships from undergrad have attained some great internships this semester in my program at Baruch which will most likely lead to full-time positions.

Our program posts stats of students who got jobs and salaries with zero or close to no experience. Columbia MSFE is their flag-ship program. I am sure you can ask the administration to give you some details on placement of international students with no experience.
 
If your undergraduate degree is in computer science then you need not worry. You should be able to get some quant/IT developer position.
 
@mangesh
Can you add your timelines to our Tracker? http://www.quantnet.com/forum/tracker/

Investing in a niche degree like MFE is not a risk-free investment. You have to accept the possibility that you may not secure a job or the job that you want. MFE programs are getting like MBA that only students in the top programs able to get the kind of jobs that justify their investment.

In an interview I did with Emanuel Derman, the Columbia MFE director, he acknowledged that MFE graduates will always find the path to jobs much more difficult compared to say Columbia MBA students.
http://www.quantnet.com/interview-with-emanuel-derman/

In my recent visit to Columbia MFE program, we were told that they will look to hire more staff to handle career service. Whether when it will be done and ready soon enough for your benefit, I don't know. And they do not have the kind of placement statistics like Baruch MFE to see how students with no work experience have fared.
 
Hi everyone.. i am an electronics and communication undergrad from india (with no work ex, have got 2-3 internships in microfinance, stock market, sales and marketing) and have got an admit at columbia MSFE.. now the issue is that i ll be takin a loan over my education... i m worried about gettin a good job which can help me repay the amount... i have no other options i.e. i dont have any other admits as of now... everywhere i read that columbia is amongst the top in term of education,, but when it comes to placement people have not really given good reviews about it.... please suggest what should i do...

i have heard that there are good opportunities in places like singapore, honk kong, london after a student completes their course frm columbia...

also i have read everywhere that students need to network for good jobs n all, i want to ask what exactly do they expect us to do... as in how to network...???

how exactly do students get placed at columbia... do they have to walk down in the wallstreet dropping their CVs in to offices and wait for interview calls i.e. students are banking upon the university name or do the companies come into campus and formally perform placement procedures....

i dont understand with even jus 60 students at a university whose course is ranked 3 in the world has problem placing their students...

hoping for a reply... thnx.. :)
 
i dont understand with even jus 60 students at a university whose course is ranked 3 in the world has problem placing their students...

Couple of things:

1) IMHO, 60 students is a large amount for a graduate program

2) How do you come up with that rank? based on what?
 
You should not look at the University but rather @ the program. Before being interested in MS in FE I had no idea about NYU, Baruch and Cornell @ all. You may have outstanding program with great placement record in less known faculties.

School Fame in the world ---> not necessarily correlated with positive placement records

my 2 Cents
 
@alain: may be you are right that 60 students is a big number, but i was actually trying to compare the school reputation and fame to it.. as in "placing 60 students for COLUMBIA SHOULD NOT BE DIFFICULT!!"

also i read the ranking in a couple of places... even if its not 3 i'm sure columbia is standing on a good position..
 
@alain: may be you are right that 60 students is a big number, but i was actually trying to compare the school reputation and fame to it.. as in "placing 60 students for COLUMBIA SHOULD NOT BE DIFFICULT!!"

also i read the ranking in a couple of places... even if its not 3 i'm sure columbia is standing on a good position..

Reputation and Fame are very subjective things, not very quantifiable. Also, placing even 5 students is hard when the unemployment rate is high.
Keep this is in mind, the reputation of the school can only take you so far. The students need to do well in the interview and show that they are better than other candidates. Coming from a famous school does not guarantee anything.
 
@alain: may be you are right that 60 students is a big number, but i was actually trying to compare the school reputation and fame to it.. as in "placing 60 students for COLUMBIA SHOULD NOT BE DIFFICULT!!"
You have no idea how hard it is to place 60 students in NYC where you have hundreds of graduate from other programs competing for their pick of the pie.
Do you have any idea how many Columbia graduates that angle for Wall Street jobs every year?
Do you have any idea how many resume the banks receive each year from Ivy and Smallville College?
Just because you are from Columbia does not mean your resumes will be picked first or given first priority. Ask graduates of the MFE/MSOR/MAFN programs and they will tell you the struggle and jungle out there.

My point of view as someone who live/study/work in NYC may be different from someone in another country who has no "feel" for the market here.

Just to give you some point of reference.
To place 60 students, directors of programs elsewhere would spend majority of their time traveling, networking with firms to establish contacts. They have staff who do this on a full-time basis all year long. They also leverage adjunct faculty who are industry practitioners. In good times, things are easy but when things get tough, these efforts pay off. If the people of business school-based programs are always out there marketing, networking and their placement isn't always 100%, what do you think about the programs who have a fraction of those resources and are not out there marketing and building contacts for their program?

Do you think Columbia and majority of MFE programs have this level of resource when it comes to career services? You can't just get a job because you have the Columbia name. You have to go out there networking yourself, do well in the interview. With the career services help, you are put in the right place at the right time to get a job yourself.

Do not underestimate the level of competition on Wall Street.
 
@Andy: Thanks alot... Your answer nearly satisfies all my queries... And I request you that please don't get too serious about things, i have joined this forum just to get answers to my queries and you are doing a perfect job...

i'll be grateful to you if you could please tell me few more things that how do students network themselves with the companies and what do you personally feel i should do, since i got no other admits and considering the high fees for which i'll be taking a loan.. should i go about accepting the decision?
 
Ah! perfect.... thnx alot.. got my answers.. will trouble you again just in case i get more queries.. ;) thnx again
 
I really wish that people who have been in a similar situation (internationals with no work experience, who have done grad school in a good program in the US and went through the recruiting process not too long ago) had started replying in this thread!!! this would be mature and helpful for all of us!!

i'm also an international admitted at Columbia MSFE. i've been trying to find international friends who have graduated from the program to tell me how things work...to be honest, i don't have a solid opinion yet, so I can't share it with you, but I will just share some thoughts. FYI, i've graduated from an undergrad Ivy in the States in 2010 and was looking for a job, got a fair amount of interviews etc, but not an exceptional job offer in the US (either got "less ideal" offers or offers not in the US). i feel that i've had a good profile/resume, good networking skills etc, but I started applying to jobs late (in february senior year) because i wasn't sure about the industry i wanted to start a career at, and i was a more research/phd-oriented person till then.

i do think that brand name will not get you far by itself, but i also think that being admitted to such a great brand/program you should have the qualifications/skills to succeed after you graduate. Being in NYC also helps, because of the great networking opportunities. as Andy said, the competition in wall street should be huge because of people coming from Ivys or smaller schools, but seriously, if you have the same profile with those people and you do equally well in the interview, who would say no to you if you have the extra advantage of coming from columbia MSFE??

as far as career services are concerned, i've realized (based on my school research) that IEOR at columbia does help students to get jobs. they have the financial practitioners every monday with people from wall street coming in as guest lectures, and they also have friday night info sessions by companies. of course, it's up to the students to network in these events and probably follow-up, but i think this is something good to start with! really, no grad school can pick your hand and walk you through the entire recruiting process from the 1st connection moment to landing the perfect job...you have to do something yourself!!! and of course, luck is needed in every case (as happens with everything in life!!!). columbia IEOR also has a couple of dedicated career officers, so that's also a good resource, if these people know what they're doing.

another thought of mine is that if the economy is bad, there will be risks for you whatever school/program you go to! positions and hiring will be less whether you come from columbia or from X school. and of course, those hit first will be internationals...so, since nobody can really predict how the market/economy will work, should anyone make decisions based on this??

as far as the number of people is concerned at columbia MSFE (i.e. 60), i would hope that not all these people will be fighting for the same job/position/specialty/industry and certainly not all these people will have the same background/profile (work experience, GPA, undergrad school, nationality, foreign languages, programming experience, extracurriculars, leadership stuff, other skills etc etc). of course, there will be other people coming from other schools, but i think i covered that point above....

also, i think that if you're an international having invested in columbia MSFE, then you should start being more flexible with what you want to do when you graduate. for example, in my case, i don't mind working in other places than wall street or nyc for that matter. i would move to another part in the US or i would go to Europe (london, brussels etc). and having worked in London in the past, i've seen that they value a US Ivy's brand, sometimes more than their own schools. furthermore, i will probably take a loan too for my studies, but certainly i do not expect to get the perfect job immediately and pay the loan back in like 2 years or something! if this happens, then i would be freakin' excited!! but in the most common case, i expect that something crappier will come first, so i'm willing to wait a little bit (or someone could say "i'm willing to compromise"). it's not that i'm not setting high expectations for myself or anything, it's just that i'm trying to be realistic so that i can face equally well any situation that will come!

for the end, i have 2 pieces of advice with regards to networking and job hunt:
1) start early during your grad studies, that is as soon as you go to columbia MSFE. this will give you time to explore options and handle any failures
2) work on other skills, apart from studying to get straight As or a 4.2 GPA! in the end, a perfect grade or all the academic knowledge in the world will get you so far as the brand will! you will need to be able to communicate during the interview, so if you're always in your room studying, perhaps your communication skills (or even english language skills for some internationals...) will not be fairly cultivated. and this goes for all other skills, such as networking, leadership etc etc, which are sought by banks and other big financial institutions apart from intellect and the ability to do complicated calculations!
 
@pepepersel: Hi, you have given a nice reply to my queries…
I just wanted to ask like for networking what should a student talk to company people who would come into the university for the seminars… like frequent meaningful questioning during the seminar could be one way to get yourself highlighted into the company personnel’s eyes…
what if we get an opportunity to talk to them after the seminar, making a way for ourselves among a crowd of another 59 students (who would be almost bouncing at them), what should one talk to them so as to impress them… like I suppose showing them our CVs or may be seek advise on what time should one apply to their organization and what is the future for the kind openings available to students at their organizations, etc…. If you could please give some advise over this, it’ll be very helpful and will help me prepare myself for such situations… thanks a lot…
Also how can one network to companies outside their universities (like may be through LinkdIn, but what are the other ways)?
 
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