DominiConnor
Quant Headhunter
- Joined
- 9/6/06
- Messages
- 1,051
- Points
- 93
@Anthony you say:"1) It would make sense that people who strongly believe in liberty would be nationalistic. "
Do you mean patriotic, ie loving your country, which is quite a different thing from hating foreigners ?
2) The continued bashing of the tea party is rather pathetic.
It is certainly low quality bashing, if my country had a swarm of racist homophobes like that, I'd like to think I could bash them rather more effectively.
People are sick of the ever expanding government
With all due respect, that is utterly false in every possible interpretation.
People are sick of paying for expanding government but all but a tiny % of the population want the bits they like to expand. The divide between factions is which parts they want to grow. Ask a Tea Party type why America needs a navy which can attack and destroy every other navy in the world at the same time, and why it is buying new stuff just in case of, well I can't think of any reason.
The homophobic elements are 100% behind keeping government large in the bedroom.
Of course other factions want more union jobs, more regulation etc.
3) Domini - I consider you to be an extremely intelligent fellow. Sometimes you can be a little harsh and judgmental.
Thank you, I believe the ability to reason implies the duty to judge.
People home school for a variety of reasons, not always religious.
But the correlation is huge. My household speaks 6 languages, has three degrees, and its members are formally qualified to teach things from Law, through marksmanship, economics to maths. As individuals we outclass the teachers at my sons selective expensive private school . (he says with all due modesty), except at Cricket, because they have a former Essex professional.
But we don't homeschool because our kids need outside influence. In Britain all schools are required by law to teach the Christian forms of hysterical superstition, and the chaplain there is the last person to beat me in a straight argument over theology. That's the way it should be, since I have no ambition for my kids to be clones of me.. H
2.0 has some quite different ethical positions to me, which is good, that alone tells you that I'm not a religious type whose ambitions so often are for their kids to be an inferior version of their parents, not mine which is for them to be excellent versions of themselves, and preferably better than me,
Those who do home school are required to submit reports to the school and meet specific benchmarks.
One reason I'm not religious is that I favour evidence, and the outcomes for children who've suffered this form of abuse are really not very good, even compared to the US system. So I simply don't care what the oversight is, since I can tell that it doesn't work.
I was "home schooled" in a non religious sense. I also started at college at 15 and am finishing my 2nd masters degree.
That evidence is equivocal. My formal schooling was really shit before 18, even compared to American, I see that as something I overcame, not as a desirable educational path. In an early maths class at university, I referred to a set as “obviously finite”, being me, the whole lecture theatre assumed it was Dominic making some complex joke at the lecturer’s expense. That’s because I pronounced it “finnit”, because infinite is pronounced “in-fnnit”. My (incorrect) reasoning was “this set is infinnit, so this must be finnit”, (more laughs), people thought it was great.
Nope. I’d learned this crap from books, no one had ever said finite in my hearing. A small thing that did me no harm, but pile stuff like that up and you have hurdles, not ramps.
Illegal immigration is a serious issue in the USA.
No it's not.
If it were that bad, the sheer volume would mean that America would become a failed state. Anything you can do that much of and survive can't be that bad.
The problem is people do not want to hear the world ILLEGAL.
Illegal is not the same as immoral.
If breaking US law (or that of any other country was the best way to feed my kids and give them a good chance in life, said laws would be broken.
The USA has been and always will be a place where people from all over the world are welcome.
So you see Palin's chance of winning the next election as zero ?
I believe that Americans have more sense, but don't see it as zero.
[I}The issue we have is unregulated immigration from Mexico. [/I]
No the issue you have is a workforce who cannot compete with those raised in nearby 3rd world states. You have regulation that is driven by political corruption, and an educational system run by a mix of unions and those who think the rapture will be in2012.
One huge strength of the US economy is that it has one of the most flexible and mobile workforces anywhere, possibly the most.
Imagine that Texas passed a law making it illegal for non-Texans to work there. This is in effect actually what happened historically. How does your notion of ‘fairness’ stack up there ?
I completely understand people are looking for a better life, but Mexico is not the worst place on earth.
Much of it is really very bad, and it’s not your place to judge.
We, as a nation, have the right to regulate and limit the amount of people who come into this country.
No you don’t.
You have the power to do this.
Even if you had “the right”, it does not make it wise. You have the right to stand in the snow whilst people pour water on you as well.
We also need to make sure lawful individuals are coming here.
Nope.
You need to understand that I’m more right wing than you.
I believe the success of a country is defined mostly by the quality of the people in it. Not by resources in the ground, or size, but people. History is with me on this.
Illegal immigrants have skills that the racist arts graduates who inevitably end up running any country’s immigration system won’t recognize. America fights wars. You can argue about which ones it should be fighting, but we can be clear that it will need people who can work hard under difficult and dangerous conditions, and really really want to be Americans. Illegals seem to fit that specification rather nicely.
A major reason Latin America is so shit is that it lacks any sort of meritocracy at all. Being poor there is not really correlated with your utility to a state that make efficient use of human capital. America is not perfect in that respect, but bloody good, and almost on a different planet from Mexico.
On top of all this, think about how many Indian and Chinese people who go through an endless amount of visa and immigration paperwork to come to this country.
You do know, don’t you, that US immigration laws were mostly created to keep those people out ?
Yes, there is a lot of paperwork, Democrats like paper, Republicans like racism, it’s a wonder anyone gets in at all.
If only they resided to the south of us they could just walk across the boarder and demand full rights.
Who cares about their rights ? People that can outsmart and outfight the system, are the people you want inside it.
I say put up a fence
I say put up a fence, and anyone who gets past it has passed the first test to acquire US citizenship. Then put puzzles in front of them., like functioning in an environment where highly trained US operatives are trying to find them, and where most people don’t speak the same language. Or you can do stuff putting cubes together, maths whatever, I don’t care.
The issue of amnesty should not be dealt with until we can stem the tide of illegal immigrants. No sense in making illegals citizens if tomorrow more people illegally come here. I think that is common sense.
I seem to have spoken with more illegal immigrants than you. They rarely think that far ahead. Their logic is “the place I am in is truly awful, let's get out", and err, that’s it. They obviously like the idea that ten years from now they get citizenship, but to them it’s like a lottery prize, only a fool bases his life choices on an expectation this will come good.
Do you mean patriotic, ie loving your country, which is quite a different thing from hating foreigners ?
2) The continued bashing of the tea party is rather pathetic.
It is certainly low quality bashing, if my country had a swarm of racist homophobes like that, I'd like to think I could bash them rather more effectively.
People are sick of the ever expanding government
With all due respect, that is utterly false in every possible interpretation.
People are sick of paying for expanding government but all but a tiny % of the population want the bits they like to expand. The divide between factions is which parts they want to grow. Ask a Tea Party type why America needs a navy which can attack and destroy every other navy in the world at the same time, and why it is buying new stuff just in case of, well I can't think of any reason.
The homophobic elements are 100% behind keeping government large in the bedroom.
Of course other factions want more union jobs, more regulation etc.
3) Domini - I consider you to be an extremely intelligent fellow. Sometimes you can be a little harsh and judgmental.
Thank you, I believe the ability to reason implies the duty to judge.
People home school for a variety of reasons, not always religious.
But the correlation is huge. My household speaks 6 languages, has three degrees, and its members are formally qualified to teach things from Law, through marksmanship, economics to maths. As individuals we outclass the teachers at my sons selective expensive private school . (he says with all due modesty), except at Cricket, because they have a former Essex professional.
But we don't homeschool because our kids need outside influence. In Britain all schools are required by law to teach the Christian forms of hysterical superstition, and the chaplain there is the last person to beat me in a straight argument over theology. That's the way it should be, since I have no ambition for my kids to be clones of me.. H
2.0 has some quite different ethical positions to me, which is good, that alone tells you that I'm not a religious type whose ambitions so often are for their kids to be an inferior version of their parents, not mine which is for them to be excellent versions of themselves, and preferably better than me,
Those who do home school are required to submit reports to the school and meet specific benchmarks.
One reason I'm not religious is that I favour evidence, and the outcomes for children who've suffered this form of abuse are really not very good, even compared to the US system. So I simply don't care what the oversight is, since I can tell that it doesn't work.
I was "home schooled" in a non religious sense. I also started at college at 15 and am finishing my 2nd masters degree.
That evidence is equivocal. My formal schooling was really shit before 18, even compared to American, I see that as something I overcame, not as a desirable educational path. In an early maths class at university, I referred to a set as “obviously finite”, being me, the whole lecture theatre assumed it was Dominic making some complex joke at the lecturer’s expense. That’s because I pronounced it “finnit”, because infinite is pronounced “in-fnnit”. My (incorrect) reasoning was “this set is infinnit, so this must be finnit”, (more laughs), people thought it was great.
Nope. I’d learned this crap from books, no one had ever said finite in my hearing. A small thing that did me no harm, but pile stuff like that up and you have hurdles, not ramps.
Illegal immigration is a serious issue in the USA.
No it's not.
If it were that bad, the sheer volume would mean that America would become a failed state. Anything you can do that much of and survive can't be that bad.
The problem is people do not want to hear the world ILLEGAL.
Illegal is not the same as immoral.
If breaking US law (or that of any other country was the best way to feed my kids and give them a good chance in life, said laws would be broken.
The USA has been and always will be a place where people from all over the world are welcome.
So you see Palin's chance of winning the next election as zero ?
I believe that Americans have more sense, but don't see it as zero.
[I}The issue we have is unregulated immigration from Mexico. [/I]
No the issue you have is a workforce who cannot compete with those raised in nearby 3rd world states. You have regulation that is driven by political corruption, and an educational system run by a mix of unions and those who think the rapture will be in2012.
One huge strength of the US economy is that it has one of the most flexible and mobile workforces anywhere, possibly the most.
Imagine that Texas passed a law making it illegal for non-Texans to work there. This is in effect actually what happened historically. How does your notion of ‘fairness’ stack up there ?
I completely understand people are looking for a better life, but Mexico is not the worst place on earth.
Much of it is really very bad, and it’s not your place to judge.
We, as a nation, have the right to regulate and limit the amount of people who come into this country.
No you don’t.
You have the power to do this.
Even if you had “the right”, it does not make it wise. You have the right to stand in the snow whilst people pour water on you as well.
We also need to make sure lawful individuals are coming here.
Nope.
You need to understand that I’m more right wing than you.
I believe the success of a country is defined mostly by the quality of the people in it. Not by resources in the ground, or size, but people. History is with me on this.
Illegal immigrants have skills that the racist arts graduates who inevitably end up running any country’s immigration system won’t recognize. America fights wars. You can argue about which ones it should be fighting, but we can be clear that it will need people who can work hard under difficult and dangerous conditions, and really really want to be Americans. Illegals seem to fit that specification rather nicely.
A major reason Latin America is so shit is that it lacks any sort of meritocracy at all. Being poor there is not really correlated with your utility to a state that make efficient use of human capital. America is not perfect in that respect, but bloody good, and almost on a different planet from Mexico.
On top of all this, think about how many Indian and Chinese people who go through an endless amount of visa and immigration paperwork to come to this country.
You do know, don’t you, that US immigration laws were mostly created to keep those people out ?
Yes, there is a lot of paperwork, Democrats like paper, Republicans like racism, it’s a wonder anyone gets in at all.
If only they resided to the south of us they could just walk across the boarder and demand full rights.
Who cares about their rights ? People that can outsmart and outfight the system, are the people you want inside it.
I say put up a fence
I say put up a fence, and anyone who gets past it has passed the first test to acquire US citizenship. Then put puzzles in front of them., like functioning in an environment where highly trained US operatives are trying to find them, and where most people don’t speak the same language. Or you can do stuff putting cubes together, maths whatever, I don’t care.
The issue of amnesty should not be dealt with until we can stem the tide of illegal immigrants. No sense in making illegals citizens if tomorrow more people illegally come here. I think that is common sense.
I seem to have spoken with more illegal immigrants than you. They rarely think that far ahead. Their logic is “the place I am in is truly awful, let's get out", and err, that’s it. They obviously like the idea that ten years from now they get citizenship, but to them it’s like a lottery prize, only a fool bases his life choices on an expectation this will come good.
