NEW MFE Rankings ???

[Joy Pathak]

Joy, How about including some reputed schools in regions other than North America, say NTU in Singapore.

NTU is a old program with decent placement (Historically 100% percent within three months of completion of the course as reported in their website).It would be good to see where they stand in comparison to the schools in US.

I am trying to focus on North america schools. Maybe sometime in the future, I will do a world MFE ranking. It will take a lot of time too collect data on international schools as it will increase my sample. I cannot only take NTU, I would have to take all other foreign schools also.

Maybe if you can volunteer your time to get some data on 10-15 foreign schools we can do a non-US ranking or something of that sort.

 

[vivekj]

Sure, you can count me in..

I have been following schools in Asia. I'm not very much aware of programs in Europe. If you can suggest some good programs, I would try to collect some data.

 

[Joy Pathak]

Sure, you can count me in..

I have been following schools in Asia. I'm not very much aware of programs in Europe. If you can suggest some good programs, I would try to collect some data.

Yeah, thats the problem. I don't know much of the quant finance programs outside north america. I think there are few in UK.

http://www.iafe.org/html/documents/AcademicProgramComparison.pdf Here is a resource with date started and so on. Also the Program Selector on the Homepage of QuantNet is usefull. Pick like 10 or so? I don't know how many there are.

 

[vivekj]

I will start with schools in Asia and then to others..

 

[Dibbs]

Taking into schools in Asia would be a good idea. I was myself, considering NTU Singapore in my choice of programs. Asia's financial hubs will undoubtedly gain popularity in the next couple of years.

 

[Joy Pathak]

Taking into schools in Asia would be a good idea. I was myself, considering NTU Singapore in my choice of programs. Asia's financial hubs will undoubtedly gain popularity in the next couple of years.

the problem is... it is not fair to american schools. The opportunities that the american schools present to you is incomparable.

It would be very easy to go from an american schools to any of the foreign financial hubs, but not as easy to go from foreign hubs to america. That is a very key distinction.

But yes, if a sole non-american school ranking was done, as might be if the data is provided, then that would be very valuable to many people also.

 

[qchan]

Hey Joy, any reason why Columbia's MSFE program is off the list? I know Columbia itself has 3 programs, but I think the MSFE program is just as strong as any other program out there for Quant Finance.

 

[Joy Pathak]

Hey Joy, any reason why Columbia's MSFE program is off the list? I know Columbia itself has 3 programs, but I think the MSFE program is just as strong as any other program out there for Quant Finance.

Good catch. I forgot to copy the whole thing from my excel file. Columbia was the last.

Thanks

 

[Marko]

Teaching Quality

Can you assure that practitioners are good teacher?

What about teaching quality?

My experience: practitioners are likely don't know how to focus on delivery of quality teaching. Do you agree? May be not.

Same thing, academia has no practical experience may be viewed not so competitive in the FE program. Do you agree? May be not.

 

[Joy Pathak]

Can you assure that practitioners are good teacher?

What about teaching quality?

My experience: practitioners are likely don't know how to focus on delivery of quality teaching. Do you agree? May be not.

Same thing, academia has no practical experience may be viewed not so competitive in the FE program. Do you agree? May be not.

Practitioners has been put as a variable because they can lead to jobs. It is not for their quality of teaching.

 

[kbharadwaj]

MFE/MMF rankings of relatively newer programs

Hi,

I will volunteer my time to help prepare similar rankings for the newer programs (less than 3 years old) so they dont go un-noticed and at the same time they don't skew the rankings of the older programs. This would be really helpful for the prospective students.

 

[Marko]

Not sure

Practitioners has been put as a variable because they can lead to jobs. It is not for their quality of teaching.

I think one can land a job is relative to his/her skills and academic results if the respective practitioner is willing to recommend this candidate. Please bear in mind that many students get admitted to the program without sufficient maths skills.

They may be smart but they struggle through the FE program. They may also learn less than half of the program contents. Do you think good relationship can supplement the required skills??

 

[Joy Pathak]

I think one can land a job is relative to his/her skills and academic results if the respective practitioner is willing to recommend this candidate. Please bear in mind that many students get admitted to the program without sufficient maths skills.

They may be smart but they struggle through the FE program. They may also learn less than half of the program contents. Do you think good relationship can supplement the required skills??

How would I know that? It depends on the person recommending. It is common for professors to internally recommend the top quintile of the students to their firms for positions or connections that they might have. I don't know what qualities they look for. I would assume doing well in the course taught by them and having a general outgoing spirit in which you can communicate effectively all your strengths and playdown your weaknesses.

---------- Post added at 09:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:11 AM ----------

Hi,

I will volunteer my time to help prepare similar rankings for the newer programs (less than 3 years old) so they dont go un-noticed and at the same time they don't skew the rankings of the older programs. This would be really helpful for the prospective students.

Thank you, that is very much appreciated. I have sent you the excel file for the programs being ranked already and the data that I have gathered.

 

[Marko]

Hi

How would I know that? It depends on the person recommending. It is common for professors to internally recommend the top quintile of the students to their firms for positions or connections that they might have. I don't know what qualities they look for. I would assume doing well in the course taught by them and having a general outgoing spirit in which you can communicate effectively all your strengths and playdown your weaknesses.

---------- Post added at 09:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:11 AM ----------



Thank you, that is very much appreciated. I have sent you the excel file for the programs being ranked already and the data that I have gathered.

Therefore, your ranking criteria based on the number of practitioners can't tell if one will get a job if the entire program is taught by practitioners as opposed to a mix.

What is your sample or population of your survey? How large that you consider that your data and results are optimum?

 

[Joy Pathak]

Therefore, your ranking criteria based on the number of practitioners can't tell if one will get a job if the entire program is taught by practitioners as opposed to a mix.

What is your sample or population of your survey? How large that you consider that your data and results are optimum?

Having more practitioners increases the probability to attain jobs at their firms rather than having just academicians teach. It has been proven at all the universities where higher number of practitioners teach that they recommend their students internally for positions. This one is not up for debate as it is already proven by comments of numerous graduates of programs situated in financial hubs. NYU, Baruch, IIT, UChicago , UToronto, and Berkeley are examples where practitioners teaching in the program have internally recommended students year after year for positions in their firms (UBS o'connor, JP Morgan, MS, CME, to name a few of the companies...the list is much longer) . Search through the "reviews" posted, and through the threads, and through the rest of this thread, you will see this mentioned quite a bit.

5 years at the moment, but probably will be decreased to 3 depending on data scarcity. Would you like to help with data collection?

I will post more updates here as time goes by. The first update with all the ages of the programs will be up soon.

 

[Marko]

Hi

Having more practitioners increases the probability to attain jobs at their firms rather than having just academicians teach. It has been proven at all the universities where higher number of practitioners teach that they recommend their students internally for positions. This one is not up for debate as it is already proven by comments of numerous graduates of programs situated in financial hubs. NYU, Baruch, IIT, UChicago , UToronto, and Berkeley are examples where practitioners teaching in the program have internally recommended students year after year for positions in their firms (UBS o'connor, JP Morgan, MS, CME, to name a few of the companies...the list is much longer) . Search through the "reviews" posted, and through the threads, and through the rest of this thread, you will see this mentioned quite a bit.

5 years at the moment, but probably will be decreased to 3 depending on data scarcity. Would you like to help with data collection?

I will post more updates here as time goes by. The first update with all the ages of the programs will be up soon.

With due respect, financial engineer is a professional one really needs to know maths well to do the job. Having more practitioners in the program is good provided they really deliver the knowledge. I believe those who embarks on a FE program....I am guessing >70% want to be trader but how many can achieve it straight to the trading desk. If they en-route to the quant developer role >> quant analysis >> trader, this person really needs to know in-depth FE knowledge.

Therefore, I hope you can rank the teaching quality. I think smart people want to learn and also get a well paid job. Likewise MBA can't do FE job, but FE can do MBA job.

---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 AM ----------

The ranking survey in fact should be done by independent body.....not from the FE students so that it is unbiased.

 

[Ken Abbott]

FE doing MBA job

It is doubtful that a financial engineer could do an MBA's job. Generally, FE's lack practical corp fin experience (i.e. how cash flows through a company) as well as accounting expertise. I surveyed the class I teach at NYU and less than 10% of them had any accounting experience. This represents a real deficiency on the part of the FE programs.

With due respect, financial engineer is a professional one really needs to know maths well to do the job. Having more practitioners in the program is good provided they really deliver the knowledge. I believe those who embarks on a FE program....I am guessing >70% want to be trader but how many can achieve it straight to the trading desk. If they en-route to the quant developer role >> quant analysis >> trader, this person really needs to know in-depth FE knowledge.

Therefore, I hope you can rank the teaching quality. I think smart people want to learn and also get a well paid job. Likewise MBA can't do FE job, but FE can do MBA job.

---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 AM ----------

The ranking survey in fact should be done by independent body.....not from the FE students so that it is unbiased.

 

[Joy Pathak]

NYU Start?

Can someone confirm NYU program start date? Is it 2008? Also, Columbia MFE?

 

[alain]

NYU? more like 1998

 

[Joy Pathak]

NYU? more like 1998

I thought it was an old program. The IAFE website and the QuantNet Program Selector show 2008. QN probably shows 2008 because IAFE does. I cannot find it on their website.

Are you sure its 1998? Was it called something else previously?