Some Recruiting Agents Exploit Chinese Students

[Joe]

Just want to point out, some of my earlier comments on this thread were responses to some of the comments on the thread "India's educational system." They were on the same thread but got split due to popular demand

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

I can say that the Chinese students I've interacted with have often been very friendly. The reason (if any) that they may be "ostracized" is that they clump up amongst themselves, speak in a foreign language, and generally make themselves appear alien to everyone else around. Those who actually reach outside of their circles of comfort will find us westerners rather nice people.

 

[Yike Lu]

I took a course on Nordic Histories and Cultures when I was at UCL.

Every immigrant group clumps; it has nothing to do with ethnicity. Scandinavian immigrants clumped, Italian immigrants clumped, Irish immigrants clumped... and on and on. You will find small country towns in the US called "Little Denmark" where most of the inhabitants are of Danish descent.

It's unclear to me what the un-clumping process is. Although it must be more prevalent for the second generation to not-clump, it is still highly individual. I have many friends that have grown up here who still prefer to hang out with their "own kind" whereas I do not.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

"Clump" seems to be the word of the day
The discussion seems to veer into how immigrants choose to live when they come to a new country. There may be nothing wrong with it as it has happened for generations and they are doing just fine.
However, if we put this in the context of international students whose goal is to join MFE programs for a year and get a job in an industry dominated by white males, it's safe to say "clumping" is not the best approach to make friends and professional contacts.

 

[coolharvard]

I'd say one of the reason would be the general "shy-ness" of Chinese people.

 

[Shantanu Kumar]

I think the same applies to Indian applicants. Very very few Indian applicants either write their own essays or get an original recommendation letter. They either write the recommendation letter themselves and get it signed by the teacher or do the both themselves, as teachers in India, on an average, do not bother to help their students.

What a stupid generalization.If you ever had been to top universities of India like IITs and IIMs then you would have known that no such practice is followed in these universities.I have studied at one of these universities and people spend a lot of time in preparing for their graduate or phd admission.So stop your badmouthing.It seems you are from one of those lots who were not able to attend these universities and hence out of sheer jealousy or frustration you are damaging the reputation of these universities.

For this reason, admission to top B-schools (IIMs) does not requires recommendation letters or essays as they know it is bogus and unreliable means to identify potential admits. The only things that matter are scores scores scores. Even experience letters can be fudged or got through family friends in various companies.

Again you have no clue about IIM admission process.Once you clear the entrance examination university asks for recommendation from your professor and not just one 2 or 3.Your frustration is quite evident.

FYI 90% weight age in admission process in on 10th, 12th, Bachelors degree % , and CAT (common admission test) scores. Work-ex makes barely 10% for shortlisting. After 1000 candidates have been shortlisted, from which another 700 or 800 are to be shunted, at lets us say IIM Ahemdabad, GDs (Group Discussions) and PIs (Personal Interviews) are conducted. This part is walk in the park for any convent educated student, for the language skills (spoken and written) in English of most Indian students are pathetic.

They look at all of your past education and accomplishment.What's wrong with that?University all over the world follow this procedure.After all they want consistent performers.

Regarding jobs and money, I can safely say that contacts, ability to manipulate things or being devious will help you more in corporate world in India, rather than true knowledge. So, this is kind of practice lesson for what you can do in the real world in India. Still don't believe me? Just look at the qualifications (educational and not criminal!) or the ministers in India. Many of them have barely passed 10th grade, and they are managing the economy of India! by using vote bank politics.

Yes Indian politics is very dirty and most of the politicians either have criminal background or are illiterate.But how is qualification of a politician connected with those of students.You really need some help.Get your logic right.Stop damaging the reputation of these graduates.

People from these universities are hired by companies like Google,Microsoft,DB,Morgan Stanley,BCG,McKinsey etc.If there was any truth in your allegations such company would not have been a regular recruiter.Stop spreading lies.

 

[kuberkhan]

Still don't believe me? Just look at the qualifications (educational and not criminal!) or the ministers in India. Many of them have barely passed 10th grade, and they are managing the economy of India! by using vote bank politics.

Not true. Even though that's what we were being fed to us in movies and some laymen in news channels. Politicians are well educated in India (except for a few who did not make it to their 10th grade)and no one is trying to screw up the country by stealing from the poor or for the vote bank politics. It's us (I use the "us" referring to every individual who never cared who goes to power except after the vote results, say to himself and a few others, that the previous one did a 10000 Crore scam this one did 1000 crore scam so this one is better) who let this happen. You think a Finance minister decides what the budget and how the reforms should be? No, they are highly educated IAS officers, MBAs from IIMs and other top colleges from all over the country and world who makes these suggestions.
Agree to some extent that when the policy goes to a debte in parliament, some lowly educated MLAs (who did not pass 10th grade) stand up and say this is wrong or this is right without knowing what he's talking about.

 

[Ken Abbott]

Walk to the university? Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.

 

[Ken Abbott]

(That's Monty Python for those of you under 40.)

 

[rishab dhar]

What a stupid generalization.If you ever had been to top universities of India like IITs and IIMs then you would have known that no such practice is followed in these universities.I have studied at one of these universities and people spend a lot of time in preparing for their graduate or phd admission.So stop your badmouthing.It seems you are from one of those lots who were not able to attend these universities and hence out of sheer jealousy or frustration you are damaging the reputation of these universities.

First of all, before calling it a stupid generalization, see the frame of reference of my comment. I refereed of the many Indian applicants who apply at US universities. Secondly, only 3-4% of the applicants who apply to foreign universities from India are IITians or from IIMs.

Finally are you dumb? First you say

no such practice is followed in these universities

then you say

Again you have no clue about IIM admission process.Once you clear the entrance examination university asks for recommendation from your professor and not just one 2 or 3

These are two contradictory statements.

So stop worrying about my logic and think before you write.

 

[rajanS]

What a stupid generalization.If you ever had been to top universities of India like IITs and IIMs then you would have known that no such practice is followed in these universities.I have studied at one of these universities and people spend a lot of time in preparing for their graduate or phd admission.So stop your badmouthing.It seems you are from one of those lots who were not able to attend these universities and hence out of sheer jealousy or frustration you are damaging the reputation of these universities.

Again you have no clue about IIM admission process.Once you clear the entrance examination university asks for recommendation from your professor and not just one 2 or 3.Your frustration is quite evident.

They look at all of your past education and accomplishment.What's wrong with that?University all over the world follow this procedure.After all they want consistent performers.

Yes Indian politics is very dirty and most of the politicians either have criminal background or are illiterate.But how is qualification of a politician connected with those of students.You really need some help.Get your logic right.Stop damaging the reputation of these graduates.

People from these universities are hired by companies like Google,Microsoft,DB,Morgan Stanley,BCG,McKinsey etc.If there was any truth in your allegations such company would not have been a regular recruiter.Stop spreading lies.

It is true IIT and IIM are pretty good. But the admission officers are corrupt. On the contrary, I know many Indians dream of going to those universities. But the competition in India is too intense. I heard some people who got a 96 in state exams didn't get in compared to those who got a 100. But I also heard that you could pay to get admitted (hence the corruption). some RS 10 lakhs. I know there are seats allocated for NRIs as well. All those allocations are based on paying top money. I know this because when I graduated from Thailand, I wanted to go to IIT and the tuition they were asking from me (NRI) was equivalent to American Institutions if not more. Many factors on admission process is also based on your family background. I recall my uncle spending some 20 lakhs to get my cousin into medical school in india. its crazy

 

[rishab dhar]

People from these universities are hired by companies like Google,Microsoft,DB,Morgan Stanley,BCG,McKinsey etc.If there was any truth in your allegations such company would not have been a regular recruiter.Stop spreading lies.

Working for big companies does NOT imply more earnings! Also you have some serious RC issues. Did I say knowledge does not matter? If yes please mention or quote . Do you know the mean of phrase "more than"? Something is more important than the other does not mean that other has no value.

Tell me which MBA grad will a company hire? A guy who is manipulative,devious and good at making people buy the company's product (marketing the product) or someone with just knowledge?

As a matter of fact just see history, some of the best quality product went unsold just because they weren't marketed properly.

 

[rishab dhar]

@ Shatnatnu

Yes universities all over the world give importance to marks in previous grades, but they do not simply shunt out applicants who didn't get a perfect 800 on GMAT or whatever that GMAT score. IIMs on the other hand simply reject those who do not a specific scorfe (percentile). Do you even know that there several people who are much better at running companies, with much better communication skills than those who scored a 99 percentile on CAT or GMAT.

The method used by IIMs may be appropriate for a programs such as MFE for they intend on creating engineers, and intellectual throughput is more important than managerial skills, but for selecting mangers it is old school method.

This is one reason why Harvard/Wharton/Columbia B-schools are the source of the more number of billionaires than any other B-school in the world.

 

[mfegrad]

rishab,

You need to relax. Your rants and invective derailed this thread once already.

 

[rishab dhar]

Can we now focus on Chinese students on this thread now?

 

[rishab dhar]

@ mfegrad

I agree, and I do not intend on posting anything else on this thread related to that topic. The above statements were the last, and replies to the above will simply be ignored by me. You have my word.

 

[rishab dhar]

Well I don't know about China and Chinese. I had a thought that this misinformation might have been because they probably do not have complete information through the internet or perhaps the language barrier. Most the Chinese would prefer to see this information in a Chinese language, but most of this information might be unavailable. Also, I think Google is blocked in China, so probably this information in English is probably not even searchable in Baidu. I once tried Baidu, and all information that I got was in Chinese. Hence, these bad decisions? These are of course guesses. I might be wrong.

 

[asdzxc]

Honestly, I'd always cheat if I could always get away with it. The Chinese are simply doing what many of us are simply afraid of doing - getting an upper hand by cheating. Check out the Olympics - the Chinese cheated, and they pulled it off. That's dope.

the Chinese cheated - 100% agree!

 

[asdzxc]

I am a little surprised that US government allows US (non-profit) colleges to pay the agents (or middle men) commission to recruit students. I have zero respect for schools that have to pay agents to solicit mismatched students. SUNY has just lost a lot of points in its reputation in my own opinion.

I am also surprised that nobody has yet sued this Martin guy.

Nothing to do with the US government.

 

[asdzxc]

Although few people are as scathing of the way some finance courses are marketed, I do not yet quite see why he thinks he is subject to deceit

It never crossed his mind that he’d pay $47,000 a year to live in an almost empty country inn
It sounds like he has better accommodation than I had at university.

and attend classes five miles down the road
I had to travel >5 miles, but my ethnic group is Irish, we can do this "walking" thing I believe some of my people now can ride bicycles, though I regard the rumours that people in Ireland now have cars as a flight of fancy.

at a UConn satellite campus comprising two buildings and 250 students.
So ? And ?

He shares a room and a microwave with his only compatriot on the Torrington campus,
I shared a room for my first 4 months at university, it ended badly, knives were involved, but I still don't see this as unbearable hardship. When my wife-to-be was studying at Oxford (a British university, you may have heard of it), they did not provide a microwave oven, indeed they forbade them. So I had to buy her what she and her room mate called "the magic cupboard".
Strangely, people who've been to Oxford (like the British Prime Minister, the Mayor of London and a good % of the quants in London and NY) never ever talk of the bitter hardship they faced at this university, imagine it ! cooking on a microwave, just like ordinary people !

with his only compatriot
The #1 problem with Chinese students is other Chinese students who clump together. This often hinders their ability to learn English and do their homework on their own, so if I were running a program I would spend money merely to stop them forming an isolated group within the university.

“I didn’t know there was a regional campus,” said 20-year- old Lin
If you meet Lin, tell him not to send his resume to my firm, because he would fail any evaluation of intelligence we might apply.

I appreciate that China hasn't quite reached the level of (say) Zimbabwe, where one may use the Internet without risking being tortured, but I'm pretty sure that you can use Google to do basic research.

About 90 percent of recommendation letters for Chinese students are fake and 70 percent of essays aren’t written by the applicant,
This is obviously false, the % are far higher.

I'd say 95%.