2016 QuantNet Rankings of Financial Engineering (MFE) Programs

[Berk Torun]

These MFE degrees are like MBAs for math people,
students just want to buy brand names. It's unfathomable that a "no name" university like Baruch could be top 10, smell fishy.

Overall university quality and specific program quality do not necessarily correlate. School name is important for sure but some universities have very specialized programs.
I don't study at Baruch so I have no bias at all. Even if you ignore all the stats Baruch shares, just check Baruch students LinkedIn accounts. Many of them have good internships. I also heard that department is heavily involved and helps students a lot.
By the way, the highest ranking program, namely MCF at CMU should also be downgraded by your logic because overall CMU is nowhere near Columbia, Princeton, MIT, Chicago

 

[TehRaio]

Overall university quality and specific program quality do not necessarily correlate. School name is important for sure but some universities have very specialized programs.
I don't study at Baruch so I have no bias at all. Even if you ignore all the stats Baruch shares, just check Baruch students LinkedIn accounts. Many of them have good internships. I also heard that department is heavily involved and helps students a lot.
By the way, the highest ranking program, namely MCF at CMU should also be downgraded by your logic because overall CMU is nowhere near Columbia, Princeton, MIT, Chicago

I was actually trying to be sarcastic

 

[Daniel Duffy]

I wonder how the Baruch C++ course compares with the others out there.

 

[Mensa]

@Andy Nguyen

A suggestion for the “table layout" of new ranking.

Does anyone feel that the tale layout of the new ranking looks weird?

It is too compact for the "University/Program" name, but too loose for the "tuition" section, which seems "tuition" is the protagonist, instead of the program.

 

[CN Chen]

That's a great point but the focus on tuition here may be (dare I say it) intentional. When US News does their college rankings table, they include things like acceptance rate, and enrollment class size numbers along with tuition. Here, tuition is clearly the most important thing. That's great for one of the top programs in particular: Baruch.

I've brought up the very strong pro-Baruch bias on QuantNet with Andy a few times before, but I don't really see that changing. If I were a betting man, now that Baruch is finally within spitting distance of the top, they would be my lock to be #1 in the 2017 MFE Rankings.

 

[K.Rajesh]

Can someone list the time of programs listed in the rankings
And also it will be very helpful for people if someone can specify in which area the program is known for.
Something like Baruch concentrates more on Programming in C++ and placement
Some University might concentrate highly on finance

Something like this will help the students from different backgrounds choose colleges basing on the area they are comfortable with

 

[Saumil Dhankar]

It is good to see the Claremont FE program being ranked among the top FE programs of the country. Not many programs have the dexterity to remain up to date with the industry environment. The Drucker School has managed to achieve just what the doctor ordered. Not only the industry interaction but also the academic rigor at this school is second to none. The FE program also has an improved placement record. Students are working with closely with program and career staff, but also with faculty and industry professionals. More importantly, I would like to mention the curriculum and flexibility as the special feature of this program. Further, the FE program does not focus just on the immediate employ-ability but the long term relevancy in the the financial industry at large. All of this and more is what forms the core emphasis of this program. No wonder the alumni of this program are ever ready to lend a helping hand to mentor the juniors all the time. Last but not least it is a program meant for finance enthusiasts ready to catapult their career in the field of niche financial application, but we also have students interested in data analytics and even corporate finance. So, a plus one from my side.

 

[Adelyn]

Can someone list the time of programs listed in the rankings
And also it will be very helpful for people if someone can specify in which area the program is known for.
Something like Baruch concentrates more on Programming in C++ and placement
Some University might concentrate highly on finance

Something like this will help the students from different backgrounds choose colleges basing on the area they are comfortable with

I think that is where researching the university really helps. If you go to a program's website (a brief look at coursework, emphasis on placements) you can more or less gauge what they focus on. I think compiling a list will be ineffective because programs attempt to change things year to year...

 

[TheQuantFifteen]

I finally have time to reply to this ranking. First, kudos to the guys who create these rankings, regardless of the bias it is definitely helpful for future students.

Now that has been said, there is an obvious conflict of interest between the guys who make this list and Baruch. There is no way in hell Baruch is 2nd along with UCB and Columbia, how on earth is that possible?

Peer Assessment Score (20%) - UCB(1), Columbia(1) then Baruch(3) (This is not subjective and actually based on the scores provided in the rankings; (the current peer rank: 4.1, 4.1, 3.9 respectively).

Seeing that Baruch is 3rd under best employment outcome:

Placement Success (45%) - UCB (1), Baruch (3), Columbia (3) - These are coming from the quantnet rankings.

• Employment Rate at Graduation (10%)
• Employment Rate Three Months after Graduation (15%)
• Starting Salary (20%)

I don't think anyone who is an active member of quantnet will argue against this (selectivity). No way you get offers from UCB, Columbia, Baruch and actually choose Baruch (yes, there will be certain exceptions, but it will be a rare case).

Student selectivity (25%) Columbia(1)/UCB(1) jointly then Baruch(3)

• GRE Scores (15%)
• Undergraduate GPA (7.5%)
• Acceptance Rate (2.5%)

Score this however you like, won't change the outcome
Employer Survey Score (10%) - Columbia(1)/Baruch(1)/UCB(1) all same joint score

So unless my maths is off somewhere, from my perspective it seems like: UCB, Columbia then Baruch, and not even jointly but as 2nd, 3rd and 4th respectively. It is really misleading to have the rankings skewed due to conflict of interest by constantly having Baruch move up in the rankings.
@CN Chen couldn't have said it any better - If I was a betting man, in the next few rankings I won't be surprised to see Baruch as the top program. I encourage the rest of the community to provide their honest thoughts on where Baruch places.

In full disclosure: I graduated from UCB and currently working in NY and from my opinion the most important thing to me (as an international student) going into the program was gaining solid employment which honestly UCB does an amazing job at. I don't know what else could be more important in choosing a program than solid employment (which impacts ROI), and knowledge gained.

 

[quantquanta]

I finally have time to reply to this ranking. First, kudos to the guys who create these rankings, regardless of the bias it is definitely helpful for future students.

Now that has been said, there is an obvious conflict of interest between the guys who make this list and Baruch. There is no way in hell Baruch is 2nd along with UCB and Columbia, how on earth is that possible?

Peer Assessment Score (20%) - UCB(1), Columbia(1) then Baruch(3) (This is not subjective and actually based on the scores provided in the rankings; (the current peer rank: 4.1, 4.1, 3.9 respectively).

Seeing that Baruch is 3rd under best employment outcome:

Placement Success (45%) - UCB (1), Baruch (3), Columbia (3) - These are coming from the quantnet rankings.

• Employment Rate at Graduation (10%)
• Employment Rate Three Months after Graduation (15%)
• Starting Salary (20%)

I don't think anyone who is an active member of quantnet will argue against this (selectivity). No way you get offers from UCB, Columbia, Baruch and actually choose Baruch (yes, there will be certain exceptions, but it will be a rare case).

Student selectivity (25%) Columbia(1)/UCB(1) jointly then Baruch(3)

• GRE Scores (15%)
• Undergraduate GPA (7.5%)
• Acceptance Rate (2.5%)

Score this however you like, won't change the outcome
Employer Survey Score (10%) - Columbia(1)/Baruch(1)/UCB(1) all same joint score

So unless my maths is off somewhere, from my perspective it seems like: UCB, Columbia then Baruch, and not even jointly but as 2nd, 3rd and 4th respectively. It is really misleading to have the rankings skewed due to conflict of interest by constantly having Baruch move up in the rankings.
@CN Chen couldn't have said it any better - If I was a betting man, in the next few rankings I won't be surprised to see Baruch as the top program. I encourage the rest of the community to provide their honest thoughts on where Baruch places.

In full disclosure: I graduated from UCB and currently working in NY and from my opinion the most important thing to me (as an international student) going into the program was gaining solid employment which honestly UCB does an amazing job at. I don't know what else could be more important in choosing a program than solid employment (which impacts ROI), and knowledge gained.

In terms of Baruch, I don't think the rankings are skewed. This method was created to highlight Baruch's strengths. Let's look at undergrad GPA. Many American Baruch students come from CUNY/SUNY colleges, which are good schools but it's easier to inflate your gpa at these schools, which leads to the high GPA of incoming Baruch students. Not sure about comparing international students, so I'll leave that out. The key here is employment though. Baruch gets students jobs quickly. But it doesn't mean that their alums are moving up in the corporate world. I'm guessing CMU, NYU, CU, UCB, etc. grads are more likely, on average, to move up in the quant world. As for peer assessment score, I genuinely believe Baruch students are happy with their program. The director is very very involved with the program. Personally, I believe Baruch is a top 10-12 program that has benefited greatly from quantnet's rankings. It is not many students' top choice, but in its niche, it is the best at what it does. With Baruch you don't have to stress about getting internships/jobs. The director will basically do that for you. Short term, it may give you the same starting salary as top programs, but long term, don't bet on it.

 

[quantquanta]

In my opinion, Columbia's MAFN is quite special. Programs ranking higher than it should be in Tier 1 while those ranking lower than it but still in top 10 should be in Tier 2. In this case, Columbia's MAFN has to be in Tier 1.5

do you mind expanding on why columbia's mafn program is special? who are you defining as tier 1?

 

[IntoDarkness]

after u get into the door, ur alma mater doesnt matter anymore

 

[pingu]

There is no way in hell Baruch is 2nd along with UCB and Columbia, how on earth is that possible?

why not?

 

[TehRaio]

This "debate" seems a bit sterile, and what does top 10 or 12 even mean?
It sounds a lot like: I can NOT believe a program, which does NOT cost $50k-100k, offers same career prospects as the others. "No Way in Hell" it does not, my money was well spent I tell you!

 

[quantquanta]

This "debate" seems a bit sterile, and what does top 10 or 12 even mean?
It sounds a lot like: I can NOT believe a program, which does NOT cost $50k-100k, offers same career prospects as the others. "No Way in Hell" it does not, my money was well spent I tell you!

Here's a look at a ranking created by a non Baruch website,
2015 Financial Engineering Rankings
Baruch was ranked 21st... Quantnet is the only website, albeit the most popular probably, to rank Baruch in the top 15

 

[pingu]

Here's a look at a ranking created by a non Baruch website,
2015 Financial Engineering Rankings
Baruch was ranked 21st... Quantnet is the only website, albeit the most popular probably, to rank Baruch in the top 15

I would say that link you posted is the only website not to rank Baruch in top 15.

 

[IntoDarkness]

chicago top 3... jhu top 10... all credibility is lost

 

[quantquanta]

unfortunately we can say the same thing for quantnet for ranking baruch a top 5 program... We don't know who the top programs are, due to the wide variety of rankings, you're just going off of what quantnet's been feeding us

 

[pingu]

unfortunately we can say the same thing for quantnet for ranking baruch a top 5 program... We don't know who the top programs are, due to the wide variety of rankings, you're just going off of what quantnet's been feeding us

I really don't care about the rankings. I just find amusing how people try to discredit Andy's work. If somebody doesn't like go and create a ranking following a different methodology. More information is better, right?

I think the QN ranking seems sort of believable. I was expecting to see something similar between these two rankings. Both seem to give around equal weight to job placement and salary. So the difference is in other factors.

I would be worried about a ranking that give 1/3 of its weight to the GRE alone.

 

[IntoDarkness]

the most important factors for mfe programs are placement records and reputation among employers.

for example, i would confidently say at least for jpm, baruch carries at least the same weight as columbia does. but on the other hand, ms seems preferring columbia grads over other programs.

i would rank programs based on these 2 factors alone. placement records can be obtained from program staff. industry reputation can be acquired through informational interviews. thus based on the information i gathered, i believe baruch is one of the top programs.

note that gpa, gre, course materials, and other factors are generally absorbed into placement records. employers consider those when doing recruiting.