They'll know the timeline of the courses taken because you have to submit official transcripts from all schools attended after high school. But they would also know that the material you learn (assuming) from UIUC would be the same type of math you'd learn at Cal or CMU campus (they'll check the...
If you have to tell your interviewer that the degree was done online, so what? The classes are the same, and you take the same exams, do the same projects, same homeworks. You still have to study hard to get good grades whether you take the classes on campus or away from campus.
But I agree the...
The question is, how did you graduate with an engineering degree with limited math background? I graduated with an engineering degree, and part of the degree requirement was bunch of math classes as preparation for the more hardcore engineering classes in junior/senior years.
Some of the classes are taped from pervious years, but I don't see any problem with that. They still teach the same topics, assign similar homework problems / exams (that were exactly the same as the ones assigned to folks who took that class from previous years). It's just like taking the same...
I think it depends on the school. My ugrad school (i had a grad and a ugrad degree from my ugrad school) prints the major on diploma, but my grad school does not print major on diploma.
MS&E is a joint program between IEOR dept and Business School.
But you're right that MSFE is more quant oriented, so you better have a solid math background.
Think of this way....
Stanford's MS&E is like Columbia's MSOR. Their students can take Financial Engineering classes as their electives, but they can also take many other OR classes that are not FE, and they don't get a "financial engineering" degree. Stanford's MFM is like Columbia's MSFE.
I'd say Cal's MFE program is just highly regarded as those in NYC. I'd argue that Cal's MFE program is probably the best in the West Coast.
captn sounds like a die hard Cal fan.
Is it worth it to spend 100K to take PhD classes but your diploma designation is Masters? Also, most of your PhD classmates will be taking the same classes for free.
IMO, you don't get enough credit if you take a lot of PhD classes, but graduate with a masters degree.
So, they took 10 students out of 543..... what's the point of having a new program like this if they're only gonna take 10 people?
I can't imagine all of the 533 rejected applicants are that far off from the 10 accepted applicants.
just go ahead and take a look at sample problems from GRE's website, and you'll find it much harder.
And they'll stop using adaptive testing (in which the exam starts out from easy question and gets harder if you get and easier ones right, so it's still possible to get 800 if you miss one or...
I would say yes.
Many programs have much higher acceptance rate for domestic students than international students (if you group the applicants into two separate groups).
I am a little surprised that US government allows US (non-profit) colleges to pay the agents (or middle men) commission to recruit students. I have zero respect for schools that have to pay agents to solicit mismatched students. SUNY has just lost a lot of points in its reputation in my own...
thanks for clearing it up. you said "you have a degree that's not really recognized", and the only degree mentioned in the discussion is MSOR, so I thought you meant MSOR is not recognized in NYC.
better take some programming classes (C++/C#/Java)
Simulation class will require some basic programming skill (in matlab or C++ or other high level language)
Did they really tell you that you can reapply for MSFE? Because they would mean you have to take more classes (i.e. more tuition fees) to complete all MSFE requirement after some MSOR classes. (I don't think MSOR's core classes can be used to substitute MSFE's core classes.)
MSOR is a 1-year program if you do it full time on campus. It can be 2-3 year thing if you do it part time away from campus (CVN). And I think certificate is only offered via CVN.
another problem is that IEOR 4701/IEOR 4706 are only offered in summer to accomodate course schedule for MSFE, so I doubt you'd be able to take them as pre-req for 4707/4709/4710/4731 as MSOR. But you can always take more basic FE classes like 4700 and 4620. These are open to all IEOR people.
you can take IEOR 4500 without restriction, but I doubt you'd be able to take 4731 and other FE classes unless you are willing to go over 30-unit minimum requirement because there are tons of pre-reqs such as ieor 4701/4703/4706/4707, and you have to have good grades before your advisor allows...
another nice thing about CVN is that you are not asked to pay thousands of dollars of misc fees (such as student activity fees or mandatory fees or insurance fees). And you don't have to spend money on dorms or apartments. All you have to pay is the per-point tuition and $375 of CVN fee (and...
If you want to get a PhD, CVN is NOT a good option. First, CVN is for those working professionals who just want to pursue a terminal master degree (or professional degree), because it's virtually impossible to conduct research away from campus. Also, professors will very unlikely to write...
Columbia MS&E for sure.
Cal's OR isn't quant-oriented. And it seems like you're admitted to their new M. Eng. program, not the traditional MS program. The new M.Eng. program is professionally oriented (i.e. no research required), but among the 8 required classes, it'll require you take two...
The whole Columbia's IT infrastructure should be revamped, not just online status system. Their emails portal has slow loading time, their student portal (mycolumbia.edu) has been basically useless because the content is very lacking (I went to UCLA, and my.ucla.edu website has great content...
note that Cornell and Columbia MSOR have same designation on the diploma... (Cornell diploma says "Master of Engineering in ORIE" (but they give you a certificate in Financial Engineering (FE is not noted in Cornell's diploma)), while Columbia diploma says "Master of Science, Operations...
that's incorrect.... only selected MSFE rejects are offered a chance to be considered for MSOR....
NOT all of MSFE rejects will be considered for MSOR.
It says "recommended for admission" because the department head is "recommending" the dean of admission to admit you, since in most schools, dean of admission is the one who officially decides whom to admit, and dean almost always follows the "recommendation" from the department head. So...
Cal and Ga Tech,.. your chance is slim, since both schools put a lot of emphasis on grades/test scores... The Cs would definitely raise warning flag for them.
U$C you can get in no problem, but I don't recommend that you waste money on U$C's so-called "education" might as well stay home at Rice...
That means unless something drastic happens, you are admitted... the validation from the Dean is just formatliy... this is pretty much the practice in every school....
U$C.... what a surprise...!
U$C's reputation is that you don't have to be smart to get accepted as long as you have $$$... One of my bosses interviewed many U$C kids and got the impression that they can't even write proper cover letters.... he also told me that one of the professors he had in...
Columbia also has launched a new program called "M.S. in Management Science and Engineering",.. a joint program between B-School and IEOR department...
The problem is that most universities don't want you to send in extra stuff that aren't part of the requirement... and I doubt they would spend their time going over the list of textbooks/topics.. etc.
Yep.... I agree... while having a Bachelor degree from a prestigious school would help, it is not a do-or-die factor on where you got your ugrad degree from....
A "named" school is highly ranked and prestigious,... a no-name school is a school that you probably have never heard of.... (such as Azusa Pacific University)....
I think part of the usefulness of a PhD degree is what school you get it from, and what field is your PhD in.... A PhD from a no-name school in a less popular field certainly isn't worth much.
I don't know why people are so shy about saying where they get their degrees from.....
Just go to Columbia website, and you'll see that Columbia IEOR does NOT accept any transfer credit, so basically, you'll apply and start the MSOR program from scratch...
And 720 Q is too low, IMO...
I personally think FE certificate is useless comparing with an FE degree...
But I was wondering how an FE certificate is perceived in the streets, especially among potential employers....
I agree... going for PhD is a big time committment. If you want to go for PhD only for money/job placement reason, then you will suffer for the next 4~6 years to an extent that I'd bet you'd quit in the middle of it....
What type of "verification" could they have done? They can not possibly check with every single school in the United States to see if an applicant had gone to a school but that school isn't listed in the application? They have hundred of applicants, and I don't think it's efficient to do this...
agree with you on this....
you'd find many great students coming from working class families in Ivy schools. this is why they have need-based financial aid programs + need blind admission policy.
I dont know how you define "average people". I mean, if your intellectual side is average...
Yes. But not after they start using the new format. THe current format does not allow you to go back to change answers, but the new format allows you to go back to change answers.... this means that current format can adjust difficulty as you take the exam thus allowing you to have 1 or 2 wrong...
Don't waste any money on any U$C classes. As Andy points out, their "requirements" are not really "requirements." You basically just pay to get into SUC.
Try UCLA instead. They are in same city, but UCLA's program is for real, and has tougher standard.
Right, if those community college courses are substandard, why do you think well-known university system like University of California accepts transfer credits from community college? (some classes can not be transferred, but most can.)
But I do agree that number of students in community...
Yep. Totally agree.
If you can't get into real 4-year university, community college would be a good investment to at least get a start, and then perhaps get good grades and then trasnfer to 4-year state school after 2 years (and you still get the same diploma and degree as those who start...
How does pay-to-play system work? sounds like corruption to me.
Also, if these college-students-wannabes are smart, there would've been zero demand on these for-profit colleges, and these scams would've gone away.
In the end, it goes back to the stupid choices of these college applicants...
absolutely disgusting... absolutely sickening that those "CEOs" make that much money by preying on students with college dream.
why would government allow these for-profit "companies" exist in the beginning anyways? does our government realize that the tax payers dollars go into their "CEOs"...
it does sound a little weird that you go for a MS in OR after a phd in IEOR....
CVN's classes are the same as on-campus class because you'll do the same homework, take the same midterm/final. So there is nothing "stupid" about taking classes through CVN. But the video is not streamed over the...
I don't know how much a school like UofP charges for tuition, but...
I'd rather spend my money on community college than a "for-profit" university like UofP.
Are the degrees from the "for-profit" universities like UofP really useful? I mean, their selectivity is ZERO, and admit rate is 100%, right?
Would you interview someone who got degrees from "for-profit" universities over someone who got degree from real school that requires great academic...
I personally believe anything other than an actual degree is not useful.
I don't think a certiciate is going to help that much... and I don't know how you can learn programming in an 8-hour seminar.
Yep. It does happen... just check admission result pages, quite a few MSFE ppl got OR offers. But this is not automatic, you still have to have good enough grades/test scores/rec letters/etc....
What would they (wall street firms) consider "doing well at a quant masters program at Columbia"? Do they use GPA as measuring tool?
I am currently having 4.0 after 4 classes at Columbia MSOR, but I don't expect to have 4.0 after I am done with the 10 required classes (but I'll study hard to...
where did you get the MSOR student list? I think IEOR hasn't updated their official student list on their official website for quite a long time.
Also, are you saying even the top well-known financial firms in the Wall Street don't care which program and which school you got your degree from...
If you want to be a quant, I don't think Dook's MEM program will help much... just take a look at its curriculum... not much quantitative finance element in it.
SUNY-Buffalo....? if you compare two resume side by side, one with SUNY-Buffalo, one with something like,... UC Berkeley or UCLA or Columbia or Cornell... assuming other parts of resumes are mostly similar, who would you interview?
Anyone heard of this program before? It's called M.S. in Management Science and Engineering, a degree program in collaboration from both IEOR Dept and Business School. You take required classes from both IEOR and Business school.
I think this program is new, as I did not see this on IEOR...
Increasing population....
People are having so many kids these days. This drives up number of applications every year, and thus drives down the acceptance rate for colleges.
I am pretty sure Stats and Math are completely separate departments at Columbia.
MAFN is offered by Math Dept, but MS Stat is offered by the separate Statistics Department.
What about your NYU and Baruch transcript? What if the employers ask for an official transcript from NYU or Baruch for verification purpose, and find the the degree designations listed on the official transcript and your resume don't match?
(I do know that some schools put major on diploma...
Would that be considered "lying on your resume" though? Because your diploma and transcript both say your M. Eng degree is "ORIE" major. Your diploma and transcript will not mention anything about FE concentration. Cornell does not "techinically" offer M. Eng in FE.
This would be like going...
I understand the content may be different depending on how MSOR students select electives, and I know Cornell's students spend 3 semesters.
But for an employers who are scanning resumes, do you think which would be more appealing, a M. Eng degree in ORIE with concentration in FE or a MS...
How would the adcom ppl tell if the essays and letters were written by admissions consultants? I mean, an experienced admissions consultant would make sure that everything in the letters and essays is matched to applicant's background and history, right?
I think a M. Eng degree from ORIE is better for employment in your desired field..
A Master of Professional Studies degree sounds like a degree from extension school.
I don't understand why Cornell doesn't confer straight FE degree (such as Master of Engineering, Financial Engineering) like Columbia (Master of Science, Financial Engineering)? Cornell instead confers a Master of Engineering, ORIE degree, with certificate in Financial Engineering. IMO, this is...
Yes. A lot of foreign applicants write their own letters and let advisors sign them. These letters are considered useless, unless whoever signs the letter is well known internationally.
http://prisms.cs.umass.edu/mcorner/cs-admissions
So you get A+ easily at Cal? I am surprised that half of classes can get easy A+.
I know some professors curve really generously (at many top schools), but that generosity usually borders at B+ to A-. You still have to work hard to earn an A+ at most schools.
---------- Post added at 12:28...
You can definitely collect the letters from your recommenders and mail the letters along with the rest of application material to the schools by yourself. (Some schools prefer this way if this is not done online.) If the schools or the professors are worried about you taking a peak at the...
Then why do private schools like Ivy League schools or Stanford charge such high tuition if they are "non-profit"?
I mean, if a private school charges $4K for a class, then I am sure somebody from that school makes profit from that $4K of tuition.
How does this "for-profit" college system work? What is this profit and where does it go to?
I mean, employees at the "non-profit" schools still make reasonble salaries.
Can you ask them about the admission statistics of the MSOR programs? I've heard it is easy to get into Columbia's MSOR program in comparison to other top programs like Cornell, MIT,.. etc. I am interested in the exact statistics to be convinced that this rumor about the Columbia MSOR admission...
A verbal score of 300 isn't going to get you into any decent schools. It doesn't matter what score you got for quant or writing sections.
Verbal isn't as important as quant, but you have to get it closer to 500.
Interesting. Because so many people have talked about how they applied for FE, but were recommended for OR, I was expecting something much higher than 20-30.
Since there are about 80 MSFE students in IEOR dept, do you know how many MSOR students are in IEOR? Also MSEMS, MSIE?
I wonder how many of the 597 rejected applicants ended up in MSOR program. Isn't Columbia known to squeeze MSFE rejects to MSOR?
Do you also have MSOR stats?
Almost ALL top MFE programs require GRE. Because there are so many applicants to their programs, they need GRE to help them filter out unqualified applicants.
Is it true that only FE students go into Quant job industry (or related job, such as i-banking)?
How common is it that OR students get quant job (or related) offers?
What is the ratio of FE and OR students in quant or ibanking industry?
They have sample questions in their websites. And if you took GRE in last year, you actually will be asked to write an experimental section consisting of questions in new format. There would be no penalty if you get them wrong or leave them blank for the experimental questions. I took a GRE exam...
I think it's funny that ETS revises GRE actually to make it harder for test takers.
It's just my opinion, but I feel current test format is actually easier than their revised format.
it depends on your school,.. i know Columbia's diploma does not mention your major, but my other master and my bachelor diplomas from a west coast school ranked top 25 do mention the major.... and i am positive that Cal's diploma also does show major....
but transcript will say it regardless...
not trying to nit-pick, but if your diploma and transcript designation don't say MFE, then you can't put MFE on your resume...
you probably have to put MEng. ORIE with concentration on FE on your resume, which doesn't look as good as straight MFE like Cal .... (or MSFE like Columbia)...
Cornell has "MFE" program? I think Cornell's FE program is just a concentration in OR? I mean, your diploma and transcript will say "Master of Engineering, Operations Research and Information Engineering", right? (with no mention of FE)
If your GPA is 2.75, you have just about 1% chance of getting into Cal....
That 1% depends on the rest of your application, which has to be REALLY REALLY REALLY strong.
There was a guy called financeguy in this forum, who claimed that, as MSOR, you can have very similar program of study as MSFE with the only difference being the designation on your transcript.
You basically get flexbility in course selection in exchange for the designation on transcript.
Those are the types of question that I'd least expect from an interview to go to a grad school. I'd expect more of questions like "Why do you think we should accept you?"...
= buyer's market indeed.
What are some examples of the "good" and "bad" things ? I can't really get a sense of why they are doing these in the same year.
It's definitely weird that they did these new and unprecedented things to MS applicants ... in the same year! I doubt they interviewed a lot of MS applicants...
Do you also know that Columbia has extended their MS application deadline to April 15 (for all MS programs in SEAS)... ?
Maybe this is why they have the time to interview master applicants?
Hi FinanceGuy.
What do you mean when you said if a good amount of undergrad take a class, that would make the competition less intense? Do the professors grade undergrad students easier (i.e. with more mercy)?
Also, what do you know about Professor Guillermo Gallego? He has been...
Just curious, what Ivy schools are known to have inflated GPA? I live in West Coast, so I don't hear much about the reputation regarding inflated GPA from Ivy League.
Has anyone heard of anything about this program? I am under the impression that UNC-Chapel Hill's Operations Research program is a great program in the Department of Statistics and Operations Research which admits very few people. But I have rarely heard anyone talking about it.... anyone has...
Are they selective on Columbia's undergrad? I mean, if someone who went to Columbia undergrad, but only had average GPA like 3.2, do they still admit him... ? I find it strange that Columbia would take just about "EVERYONE" from their undergrad program....
I am all for going green. So I am all for applying online instead of paper application, and sending just email notification to rejected applicants.
But if I am admitted, I'd expect to see some sort of official letter (not necessarily big packet) with official seal from the school.
can't blame the students there.
I went to UCLA as undegrad, and the tuition back then when I was freshman was about $2000 per quarter (about $6000 for year).
Now they more than double the tuition. I'd be pissed too if I were still student there.
Instead, they send official notification to applicants (accepted or rejected) via emails only.
I think it's kind of cheap part of the schools to send out notification to accepted applicants via email only because the application fee is expensive (about $70), and they refuse to send first class...
Sorry mate, I am gonna have to say FE is actually evolved from OR, which is a much broader subject.
Check out 5th paragraph.
http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2003/09/23/8578/
I understand you can take many of the FE courses if you are MSOR.
But when the employers are scanning the resumes, they wouldn't be able to tell what kind of courses you took as MSOR. They only see MSOR on your resume, and thus you won't get priority over the guys who have MSFE on their resumes.
In case you didn't know, CVN students and on-campus students pay exactly the same tuition ($1310 per unit). The difference is that CVN students pay CVN fee (about $350, but $350 is marginal comparing to the $3930 per 3-unit course tuition) while on-campus students don't. On the other hand...
I checked IEOR website... how come there are only 50 EMS students while there are 200 OR students... (along with 70 FE students and 20 IE students) in IEOR department?
Since I have engineering background, I think i'll stick with EMS.
But hey, these are the courses I plan to take for MSEMS. Based on your experience, can you list the difficulty of them from hardest to easiest so i can plan my study accordingly (i.e. take easier class during the busiest time...
But since you are in IEOR dept yourself, can you let me know the reputation / prestige between OR and EMS within the dept and SEAS? Which one is generally considered harder field? Because I know you can take SEIO 4150 to count toward OR degree, but you can NOT take 4150 to count toward EMS...
To make this clear... CVN courses are the same as on-campus course. All CVN does is to record the lectures taught by the professor and put the video online for download. If you go watch the preview (free of charge) on CVN website, you can see it is actual lecture setting, and there are on-campus...
So in your mind, Columbia OR is better than GA Tech OR? And you'd pick Columbia over GA Tech for MSOR... And just like you, I have no idea why US News has no ranking OR, since it's also a popular field of study.
Also, regarding the debate of "prestige" of CVN... if you are not sure why...
I am from West Coast, I am currently working as a computer engineer for a company in West Coast and I don't have immediate plan working in NYC or Southeast in the future. I probably will stick with computer-related career, but having a master degree in Engineering Management / OR can help me...
Are you telling me a Columbia degree from someone taking classes via CVN is not "real"???
Tell me, how is the degree "not real"... ?
Sure, if everything else is equal, I'd also give the preference to someone who attends the class in person because of the possible more interaction with...
Why is doing CVN less prestigious than taking class in person on campus?
After all, you are taking the same classes and exams as on-campus students, and you can walk with other students at the graduation ceremony just like a regular student. The degree designation is the same on trancript...
Hi guys.
I have received admissions offers from Georgia Tech (MS - Operations Research) and Columbia (MS - Engineering Management Systems, which is similar to OR). I don't know which one to choose. I am still waiting on the decisions from other schools, although I don't think the chances are...
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